Joker Twins

Unblock

@クフィ： Please show me your proper reasons, instead of blocking me only for your own argument without any consensus. 日语 is the formal name of this language. 日本闲话 is too colloquial. If 日语 can be called 日本闲话, what about 英语,法语,德语,俄语 and so on? Please keep consistency about the languages names. Bacause the original title is 日语, instead of 日本闲话, if you want to move to 日本闲话, please make consensus first, and unblock me for participating in moving discussion.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 15:05 (CST)

There are many ways to express "language" in Wu(Shanghai, my dialect).

Example of "闲话" being most widely used: Japanese, Taiwanese, Shanghainese（日本闲话、臺湾闲话、上海闲话）

"文" being most widely used: English, Chinese, Japanese（英文、中文、日文(almost the same frequent with 日本闲话)）

“语” is the same as "文" under most circumstances.

Please do not make this kind of changes if you can't speak Wu, and just a friendly reminder, we are planning to mass rollback your changes.--クフィ（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 15:23 (CST)

@クフィ： You agree that "文" being most widely used: English (英文), Chinese (中文), Japanese (日文, almost the same frequent with 日本闲话), and "语" is the same as "文" under most circumstances, so please keep consistency about the languages names by calling "语" for Japanese (日语), like English (英语), German (德语), Russian (俄语) and so on. In addition, you and Lt2818, who are opposed to call 日语 and make controverial argument, should make consensus first, because the original title is 日语. However, it is unproper and disobey the blocking rules that you judge your own case and block me by your own argument without any consensus.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 15:38 (CST)

At least for me, I've never heard of 日語zeh nyu being used in daily speech. We don't *need* to keep the naming consistent as in Mandarin they also have 語, 文 and 話, this is only a matter of how to name it naturally. Also, I'm not blocking you because you judged me. I'm blocking you because 1)it is you who mass moved titles that are not controversial in the first place. 2) partially based on your reputation on Chinese Wikipedia.

In addition, asking you personally, why are you judging me for article names on Wikipedia of a language that you don't even speak?--クフィ（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 15:51 (CST)

@クフィ： Firstly, and answer the question you asked me at the end, you say "never heard of 日語zeh nyu being used in daily speech", please show your reliable source as evidence. In addition, you oppose your own opinion that "文" being most widely used: English (英文), Chinese (中文), Japanese (日文, almost the same frequent with 日本闲话), and "语" is the same as "文" under most circumstances.

Secondly, it is undoubted that the original title is 日语. You and and Lt2818, who are opposed to call 日语 and make controverial argument, should make consensus first. However, it is unproper and disobey the blocking rules that you judge your own case and block me by your own argument without any consensus. Please stop your slander: I judge you, because it is opposed to the fact.

Thirdly, I just recover the original title, because you and and Lt2818, are opposed to call 日语, make controverial argument without proper reasons and enough evidence. Please stop your slander: I mass move titles, because it is opposed to the fact. In addition, I am slandered by someone on Chinese Wikipedia, thus I need to clarify myself by appealing to unblock and waiting for the result. Please check the fact seriously and patiently, instead of assertively or randomly.

Finally but not the least, if you believe 日本闲话 should be the title to replace the original one 日语, please make consensus by showing your reliable source as evidence in the moving discussion, and unblock me to participate in.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 16:19 (CST)

@Lt2818： Please answer my questions above, and unblock me for participating in moving discussion, due to your same argument with クフィ.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 15:19 (CST)

封锁理由呒不问题。--Lt2818（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 22:03 (CST)

@Joker Twins： Since u r a wikier in zhwiki, I'm gonna use Chinese(Mandarin, Simplified) to talk to u.

你最近这些移动什么的，有些过头了。有不少其实只需要搞重定向就够了的，比方讲涉及“白俄罗斯”的那些。白俄罗斯官方提议叫“白罗斯”，更不要提在吴语中“白俄罗斯”仍然无法完全音译（鼻音“ng”与边音“l”的区别不小啊），惟官方与日常生活中仍使用“白俄罗斯”。这种页面，并没有太大的移动意义（移动后也没有足够理由改回去）。 不会因为你想逐个音节对应了吧？ --Jason2016426（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 19:50 (CST)

You agree that "官方与日常生活中仍使用“白俄罗斯". For native Chinese and Wu Chinese speaker, "白俄罗斯" is more common than "白罗斯". However, the government of Belarus isn't the native speaker of neither Chinese nor Wu Chinese. Thus, "白俄罗斯" is both original and proper title due to the perference of the native speaker of both Chinese and Wu Chinese.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 23:12 (CST)

刚又寻着更理解弗了个。

阿富汗页面的更改不是吴语就算了，可以帮忙改；可更改的有些内容让人看不懂想法：一边删掉infobox里关于原政权的相关内容，一边删除infobox里关于现政权的相关信息。

附录于次：近一次更改--Jason2016426（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 20:37 (CST)

Because the overthrown government Islamic Republic of Afghanistan still represents Afghanistan in the United Nations, the Islamic Emirate of Afghansitan controls nearly whole territories of Afghanistan, but without any international recognition, it is unproper and controversial to list the information about the two Afghani government in the infobox of the article 阿富汗. If you really want to do so, please make the articles "阿富汗伊斯兰共和国" and "阿富汗伊斯兰酋长国" in Wu Chinese Wikipedia, and add those information there.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年3月30号 (四) 23:12 (CST)

Different wikis have their own approach to handle these problems, you cannot insist on making Wu Wikipedia like Chinese.--クフィ（讲张） 2023年3月31号 (五) 03:54 (CST)

So......

当然可以先创立那两个条目，先去填充内容啊。

在进行类似修改时也可以搁摘要里先打声招呼。

（这次修改前，先去看了zhwiki、jawiki同enwiki相关页面的讨论才想着如此。但这坑我不会开，因为我不了解那边，而且手头有别的活。你想开等你解除封锁后可以干，大不了后面帮忙修改语句嘛。）

--Jason2016426（讲张） 2023年3月31号 (五) 12:51 (CST)

Omit "搭" in country's name

@Lt2818： There are many countries in the world whose name with a word "and" ("搭" in Wu Chinese, "和", "与", "及" in Mandarin). However, there is rare for country's name with "搭" to mean "and" in any reliable source, there is usual for country's name with "和", "与", "及" to mean "and" in Chinese reliable source. Thus, it is a good idea to omit "搭" in country's name to mean "and" in Wu Chinese Wikipedia, which is more accurate and convenient to search for relevant reliable source.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年4月1号 (六) 14:27 (CST)

No reliable source is required here, just common sense.--Lt2818（讲张） 2023年4月9号 (日) 11:18 (CST)

@Lt2818： Wikipedia should ask every articles to have relevant reliable source, in order to keep the good quality and give the evidence. Thus, "no reliable source is required here, just common sense" isn't an excuse.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年4月9号 (日) 12:51 (CST)

吴语书面来源弗多，蛮多用词要靠会讲吴语个编者推导创造，追求自然、本土化个讲法。侬个想法（omit "搭" in country's name）相信多数人弗会接受。--Lt2818（讲张） 2023年4月11号 (两) 13:29 (CST)

@Lt2818： The country's name is so formal and official that it should depend on reliable source. It isn't the excuse to refuse the country's name by reliable source just because "吴语书面来源弗多，蛮多用词要靠会讲吴语个编者推导创造，追求自然、本土化个讲法". In addition, "omit "搭" in country's name 相信多数人弗会接受" is just your own opinion instead of consensus. Don't invent consensus or others' opinion.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年4月16号 (日) 14:37 (CST)

@Joker Twins 有个问题。

国家里用到“和”（'and'）的，貌似绝大多数都是两个部分中间用and连起来的。

虽然存在“捷克斯洛伐克”的先例，但它原文就没有使用'and'一类的词……

既然你提到了“formal and official”，

箇么要掰扯掰扯这个了。照你这么讲，“捷克斯洛伐克”与“捷克=斯洛伐克”这两个当地曾经争议不断的名字岂非要变成一个了？更遑论这之前就被两国人民毙掉的“捷克和斯洛伐克”、“斯洛伐克和捷克”这两个名字

--Jason2016426（讲张） 2023年4月16号 (日) 15:35 (CST)

@Jason2016426： See my first comment in this section. Due to the difference between Mandrin and Wu Chinese ("搭" in Wu Chinese to mean "and", "和", "与", "及" in Mandarin to mean "and"), it is a good idea to omit "搭" in country's name to mean "and" in Wu Chinese Wikipedia, which is more accurate and convenient to search for relevant reliable source. Czechoslovakia is the country's name without the word "and". However, Sao Tome and Principe is the country's name which can omit the word "and" in Chinese translation [1].--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年4月16号 (日) 17:48 (CST)

@Joker Twins：

？你在说甚么？

恕我直言，我个人看完你这段话，不知道是不是我语言能力差啊，感觉你在自我否定。你仅仅举出了台当局（不好意思，个人语言习惯这么说了，具体编条目时不会这么说的）的说法，那之前“白罗斯”何以改为“白俄罗斯”，还不在条目中间补充“当局建议叫‘白罗斯’的说法”？更不要提我在上一条里回复你的，你所提到的这个翻译体系的漏洞。

--Jason2016426（讲张） 2023年4月16号 (日) 18:08 (CST)

@Jason2016426： It is fact that you can't understand me correctly or normally. I list the reliable source [2] to prove that Sao Tome and Principe is the country's name which can omit the word "and" in Chinese translation. Although the reliable source is from the government of the Republic of China (Don't make "台当局" refer to the government of the Republic of China from 1950s in Wiki articles or talk pages when discussion, if it isn't direct quote. Otherwise, it is political proganda of both the government of the People's Republic of China and the Communist Party of China, and offensive to both the government of the Republic of China and many people live in the Free area of the Republic of China), it is still a government which is a native Chinese speaker, and the reliable source to name the relevant article.

United Nations [3] and both the government of the People's Republic of China [4] and Republic of China [5] call Belarus "白俄罗斯" in Chinese. Because both the government of the People's Republic of China and Republic of China are governments which are native Chinese speakers, the article here should name "白俄罗斯".

In conclusion, there is no problem that omit "搭" in country's name in Wu Chinese Wikipedia by reliable source. Thus, your opinion is unproper and unreasonable.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年4月16号 (日) 18:54 (CST)

@Joker Twins：Then?

我提出了你的翻译体系可能存在的问题，然后呢？我很期望看到你能对此打个补丁，不然我仍然可以拿“捷克斯洛伐克”举反例。“Česká a Slovenská”与“Československá”是两个国家啊，甚至当局的翻译都不一样，你总不想让他们翻译出的中文一样吧。

（“台当局”与“北京当局”相对使用，这个我当然知道啊，“当局”这个词代指官方也没错吧。我当时还解释了一下是“个人语言习惯”，这就急了？）

--Jason2016426（讲张） 2023年4月16号 (日) 21:26 (CST)

@Jason2016426： There is no problem that omit "搭" in country's name in Wu Chinese Wikipedia by reliable source. This reliable source [6] shows country's name can omit the word "and" in Chinese translation like Sao Tome and Principe. Česká a Slovenská is the historic period of Československá from 1990 to 1992 and also commonly known as Československá. Thus, "Česká a Slovenská" and "Československá" can translate into "捷克斯洛伐克" as same.

International community often refers the government of the People's Republic of China as "北京当局" from its establishment in 1949. However, both the government of the People's Republic of China and the Communist Party of China refer the government of the Republic of China as "台当局" (see 关于正确使用涉台宣传用语的意见（2016年3月修订版） 一、1 and 新华社新闻信息报道中的禁用词和慎用词（2016年7月修订） 49), which denies the legitimacy of the government of the Republic of China from 1950s. Thus, don't make "台当局" refer to the government of the Republic of China from 1950s in Wiki articles or talk pages when discussion, if it isn't direct quote. Otherwise, it is political proganda of both the government of the People's Republic of China and the Communist Party of China, and offensive to both the government of the Republic of China and many people live in the Free area of the Republic of China. Don't misunderstand or ignore my kind, friendly reminder.--Joker Twins（讲张） 2023年4月17号 (一) 07:38 (CST)

@Joker Twins Why as same？

为咾啥要翻成一样个？伲弗好拆开来翻？

挺搞弗懂侬个想法个，到底为啥想省脱箇個 并列连词 ？只是想搜着个言语，大多数地方侪好用重定向个呀。

--Jason2016426（讲张） 2023年4月17号 (一) 12:12 (CST)

@Joker Twins 至于“台当局”，我想用就用，就和“北京当局”一样。“当局”不就是政权嘛，有何不妥？“华盛顿当局”这词台媒也用不少年了，这是在贬低美国吗？美当局提出要更正吗？并没有吧。

（乖乖隆地咚。就这事情还tm要扯出去专门讲一大串比原事情还多的内容。）

--Jason2016426（讲张） 2023年4月17号 (一) 12:20 (CST)

英王

你好 想请你帮忙更新和完善一下这些页面

英国君主列表 需完善查尔斯三世和伊莉沙白二世部份. 天佑女王需把歌词和歌名改天佑吾王--61.216.108.177 2023年4月11号 (两) 11:42 (CST)